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Resources or Businesses Mentioned in This Episode

·       Card Isle – print‑on‑demand greeting card platform [Link to be added]

·       Zazzle – print‑on‑demand marketplace [Link to be added]

·       Greeting Card Universe – platform for selling greeting cards [Link to be added]

·       Play Art with Kim – Kim Snider’s creative brand [Link to be added]

·       YouTube Academy – YouTube tutorials for art projects [Link to be added]

·       Bonnie Christine’s Immersion – surface design course [Link to be added]

·       Adobe Illustrator – design software [Link to be added]

·       Procreate – iPad art app [Link to be added]

·       Hallmark Stores (Winnipeg & Brandon) – mentioned in my licensing journey [Link to be added]

Affiliate Disclaimer

Some links in this post may be affiliate links, which means either Kaylie or I may receive a small commission (at no extra cost to you). We only share tools or products we genuinely love and use ourselves.

Delores Naskrent: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to the Creative Juggle Joy podcast. I'm Delores, and this is the space where we talk honestly about building a creative life and a business that actually fits real people, real schedules, and real seasons of life. Today's episode, I think you're all going to relate to, especially if you've ever felt creative, but unsure of where to focus or like you came to art later than you thought you were supposed to.

 I'm joined today by Kim Snider, the artist Behind Play Art with Kim. Kim has such a thoughtful and encouraging creative story. We talk about finding Creativity later in life and how greeting cards became that niche, that little niche that finally clicked, and how print on demand Card Isle and focused challenges helped turn experimentation into [00:01:00] real momentum will also.

Talk about something really exciting that happened to Kim. She had a viral greeting card moment, and I'll talk about what that actually looks like day to day and how that success has helped Kim get really clear about where she wants to go next, including licensing. Kim, I'm so glad you're here.

Kim Snider: I'm so happy to be here.

I'm excited.

Delores Naskrent: Kim, I'd love for you to start by sharing that bit about. How you thought about creativity when you were growing up? You've shared this with me, but I would like my listeners to hear this.

Kim Snider: Yeah. When I was growing up, I loved to dabble in creativity and just, in many different ways.

And then, somebody pretty influential in my life told me, you're just not that good at art. You're not. Good enough to move forward and quit your day job sort of thing. And that really shaped the next 30 years for me, [00:02:00] so I. Believed that statement and, went on to just not try at all.

For the next 30 years, I went on to be a teacher, which I did enjoy. Had a career being a teacher, special education and third grade. Which was a great career. But I even got a volunteer in my class to teach art because I didn't think I could, I would tell people I can't even draw a stick figure.

Delores Naskrent: Well, I think a lot of people listening will completely recognize themselves in this. These beliefs can really shape you for decades, decades of decisions. So now life shifted in a big way for you when you started homeschooling, right?

Kim Snider: Yes, yes. So, I got married and we, adopted two boys from the foster care system. And when it was time for my oldest to go into kindergarten, it just wasn't a good fit for him. They struggled to, deal with his, behaviors that he was presenting and [00:03:00] didn't really connect with us as much as how to deal with it, my husband and I just made the decision Let's bring him home and let's just do school from home. I'm a teacher. I was a teacher. I have the skills. I can at least do kindergarten. Right,

Delores Naskrent: right.

Kim Snider: We made that choice. Instead of fight with the schools the entire time, it was exhausting.

Once I got the oldest home and then the youngest came to school age, we just kept doing it and it worked. And so then I realized I'm gonna have to teach art myself. you know, at this point there's, lots of tutorials. We called it, YouTube Academy. So I went onto YouTube Academy and I just started looking for little cute art projects I could do with my kids.

And once I started, I realized, well, this is just a skill. A lot of art is a skill that you can learn, that anyone can learn. And I can learn this and I'm teaching it to my kids. And, once I started learning in that way, I just went crazy. I just absolutely [00:04:00] devoured every class I could and started doing it on my own time in the evenings.

And never stop learning. I'm still learning all the time.

Delores Naskrent: That's amazing. I love that, that realization that you can do it is, yeah. So huge. And just understanding that this is learnable,

Kim Snider: right.

Delores Naskrent: And that changes everything.

Kim Snider: I think back in the day, I'm 54, a lot of people in my generation can understand.

I think that back then, art was reserved for those with talent. Yes. You know, and I put air quotes there. If you're not viewing this visually, art was, reserved. If you're not like Van Gogh, if you can't paint something exact replica of a photograph. Then you're just not good at art. Yeah. And I think over the past several decades we've evolved.

Delores Naskrent: Yes.

Kim Snider: Very different view of what creativity and art is and realized it's so good for you too.

Delores Naskrent: Yes, absolutely. And I know that that eventually led to you teaching [00:05:00] some in-person. Kind of events and earning some money with your art. Right,

Kim Snider: right. I feel like it's one of those things, and I've watched so many people do this too.

You start doing something and what I started doing was watercolor and then I would create cards for my friends on their birthdays or whatever it was hand. Painted cards. And they love, my friends just loved these cards and they would tell me they would keep 'em, you know, they wouldn't throw these cards away.

And once you do something that brings you so much joy, you wanna share it, right? You wanna share it, you're like, Hey, yeah, you could do this too. and I was really passionate about letting people know. I didn't think I could do it either. 'cause so many people would say to me.

I'm not an artist. I'm not creative. And I was like, ha, let me shape that a little bit for you, because I used to be exactly that way. And so that was kind of my. Behind the scenes feeling of I want other people to know they can do this and feel this joy of doing it [00:06:00] too. So I started with one class on card making.

All my friends came, and they just loved it. And they would send me pictures of the cards that they made for their friends, and their friends were loving it, and it just brought me so much joy. Right.

Delores Naskrent: And then people kept showing up.

Kim Snider: Yeah. And then each time I would learn something or create something new, I'd make a class.

And I had a lot of people that just because I think they felt comfortable that I wasn't this artist who was, above the skill level, that I was gonna approach it in a way that came from a very beginning standpoint. Does that make sense?

Delores Naskrent: Yes, it does. Totally.

Kim Snider: It was comfortable to come and just learn a fun thing.

And I would really speak to that place in them that said they're not creative because I believe wholeheartedly that we all have that in us, that yeah, that we're created with creativity. And so don't say you're not creative because it's in you. You just haven't found it yet. Right.

Delores Naskrent: And it is such an important distinction 'cause [00:07:00] artists, a lot of artists.

Also have that teaching heart, People like you who even take up art later in life. We're wanting to have friends to do our art with 'cause it's fun. Oh yes. And so we share it and that's how the whole teaching culture started. And you know, that whole, creator movement.

And so we're seeing so much more. Of course, the internet, everything helps, but. We can do these in-person things too and have so much fun with it. Now I want to switch focus a little bit here because we first met through a greeting card challenge.

Kim Snider: Yes.

Delores Naskrent: So let's talk about greeting cards as a business. How, I'll just ask you, how did Print on Demand and Card Isle come into the picture for you at that time?

Kim Snider: Well, you know, once you start dabbling in creativity, I think many of us follow the same path. We're like, Ooh, I love these watercolors, man. This is amazing. [00:08:00] We buy all the watercolors. We buy all the paper. Yes, we buy all the things and we love it. And then there's a class that comes through on mixed media or like collage, Ooh, let me try that.

And so. You buy all the stuff and you do all the things. And that was me for several years. And then I would go teach it. I would just learn it and then I would do my own thing kind of that I could teach and that was mine and teach it. And I dabbled in so many different things and then I was starting to figure out how can I make this a business?

'cause I also feel like this is often how we feel we want to, I don't know why, but we wanna monetize it or make it a, a job. And so I, I have a blog. I started way back in the beginning with a blog about creativity. 'cause I felt so strongly about people finding out that they have creativity in them and all of that.

So I started the blog and I wanted to expand. And I had tried everything. But then as you start taking classes on business, they want you to pick a niche. Yes. And every time they would say that, I'd shut down. [00:09:00] No, I don't wanna be put in a box. I can't pick a niche. I wanna do it all. I wanna have the, freedom to just whatever I want to do on that day because.

The other thing about the art for me was that it was therapeutic. And my oldest has, some significant challenges and so life could be really challenging and draining. And so this art that I would come to during each day, I needed it to be helpful to my mental health as well.

And I didn't wanna give up any of it, but somehow I. kind of went full circle back to cards. 'cause I thought, well cards the only limitation is the size. And I like to work small, but I can do any art I want on a card. I can do mixed media, I can do watercolor, I can do digital. So that was kind of an epiphany, like that's not limiting.

That's actually helpful. And then your card challenge popped up. Perfect timing. I thought, well, now that I've kind of picked this niche I need to focus in, in the classes or the challenges that come up, I'm gonna [00:10:00] choose them because of that niche, and I'm gonna try really hard to not.

Do the ones that come up that I just wanna do for fun, but stick with this niche. So that's when your challenge came up and it was free, and I was grateful and I thought, perfect. So I took the challenge and you're such an amazing teacher.

Delores Naskrent: Aw, thank you.

Kim Snider: I mean, really, really just so generous with your, skills and, all that you've learned and collected and what you do. You share? Yes. It's very, very wonderful. And so that's when I learned about Card Isle and I had started a Zazzle store.

Delores Naskrent: You and I reflect each other's, we've done a lot of the same things, so that's why I'm fascinated listening to your story because all of this, everything that you've said is exactly the way all of this kind of happened for me too.

I love hearing about it.

Kim Snider: I do think there's a lot of people Yeah. That their story is very, very similar. Somewhere along the way I found out about Zazzle, a print on demand. I learned about print on demand [00:11:00] and there was a couple mother daughter team that taught about Zazzle, so I took their.

And once you start putting your art on products, it's like, whoa,

I mean, you start putting it on everything. So it's a similar idea. I didn't pick a zone. I was like, I'm putting it on welcome mats, I'm putting it on cards, I'm putting it on journals, I'm putting it on pillows.

I just went crazy and I just kind of took my art and then I'd look at all the products and see what it would look good on and make something. But when you're that spread out and on a platform like Zazzle that has so many people, it's really hard to make any traction. So then, when I took your challenge and Card Isle came open, I was like, well, to me, I didn't know about it.

I thought, well, that's just. A real focused thing on greeting cards for artists. And I looked up the website, it was a really cool website. So I just started posting [00:12:00] after that challenge. I learned a lot. And, there's that community, the Facebook community is a real,

Delores Naskrent: At that point, you weren't even really thinking about long-term strategy. You were learning what resonated and what sold and what didn't. And I really believe that experimenting phase is so important, even though it can feel a bit messy, like you do feel like you're all over the place and you're trying different products and things.

But I'm really glad to hear that you've kind of. Done the exact thing that you were fighting at the beginning. Yes. Which was niching down. And now you have niched down to greeting cards. You're doing a lot of different things, but greeting cards I think are a really good fit for you,

and then you had that. Greeting card that went viral. Everybody went nuts in the community like talking about, it was so crazy.

Kim Snider: It was crazy is exactly the word that I kept saying at home. So I think this was, when was that card challenge? It [00:13:00] was in September. We did it towards the end of September. So I put a bunch of cards on there. And that's when I really started learning about greeting cards and I felt really good about it 'cause it had come full circle. My very first venture right into teaching art was greeting cards,

Delores Naskrent: right.

Kim Snider: So I felt really good about it and I started learning, because of your challenge, how to put together a greeting card. And you showed lots of really cool examples and showed us your beautiful cards and your success. And so I started making them. And then Christmas I thought, well, let me just look around and see what's out there for Christmas.

with watercolor, so I kind of put a search in watercolor Christmas and I saw a lot of trees. Yeah. And I saw a lot of trees with lots of white space. So I was like, I've not really painted a tree before. And I looked at lots and lots and lots of trees, so. You know, after a while these things start absorbing and swirling around in your mind.

Yeah. And one day I was just playing around at my art desk and I just scribbled out [00:14:00] this tree, my first tree that I ever painted, and I thought, oh, I really like the way that looks. Let me see about putting it on a card. And so you just start playing. You scan it in and put it in the computer and. What I do is bring it up into Canva to add the font, how I want it, and maybe a few elements that, like a star on top and things.

And then I posted it and it was the weirdest thing. Like one day I think when I posted on our Facebook, I was so excited. 'cause it had made 500 sales.

Delores Naskrent: We were just like. Shocked and so excited everybody was rooting for you. You know, it was like, yes, 500,

Kim Snider: yes. And then every morning I'd look on my Card Isle dashboard and it started growing by like a thousand a day.

Delores Naskrent: Oh my God.

Kim Snider: Next thing I know, it's 1500. Next day, 2,500. I'm just, and I am gonna be totally transparent. I kept thinking, what's happening? This, there's a glitch. [00:15:00] There's no way I could have sold a thousand between yesterday and today. There's a problem. And so I started making sure like, okay, I kept expecting the next morning to wake up and have it tell me.

You know, I'm sorry. There was a, there was a mistake in the numbers. Really? You've only sold five cards, not 5,000. But it didn't, it didn't ever, that was not the case. And the end of it, it was like 6,200 of those cards sold.

Delores Naskrent: Wow.

Kim Snider: And they were selling all the way through December. And they're still selling now, which is weird.

Delores Naskrent: Really? Wow.

Kim Snider: I mean, not in that volume.

Delores Naskrent: But still, I mean, that's unprecedented in my circles. And so it was super exciting for all of us in the community and everybody that had been involved in the card challenge. Can you imagine the incentive. That this gives to people who are just starting out.

And I've had many, participants and [00:16:00] students, members of my school and membership who, they'll try it out and then the first month they sell. Two cards, or they sell 10 cards. I mean, we celebrate every single one. They're super excited.

Kim Snider: Oh, I was excited about 10 cards. Yeah.

Delores Naskrent: Now they're really excited about it.

Now that they've seen this happened and you're not the only one. We had somebody who sold 22,000 in the last quarter.

Kim Snider: I was amazed by that. Floors me. Yeah. Yeah. I know that person. 'cause we've chatted on Yes. And she still feels imposter syndrome,

Delores Naskrent: right?

Kim Snider: Like Yeah. And I understand that.

Delores Naskrent: Is what is so cool about having somebody like you on the podcast is to talk about that and, it's so exciting when it happens, but at this point you have.

Had it happen. Yeah. And so not only you, but the people who have been also part of this are knowing in their hearts that it could happen for them too.

Kim Snider: Yes. When you least expect it, [00:17:00] when you don't even have a clue that that's even possible. And then, boom. And I was doing it for several months before that happened with a few sales here and there, and I was excited about those 20 sales or whatever.

Right. yay. I'd be like, yay.

Delores Naskrent: Same thing happened for me. And we have definitely noticed that since, Card Isle has been bought out by 1-800-FLOWERS that a lot of people. Across the board are seeing, a rise in their sales. We're getting more sales, so you just happen to jump in at the absolute best possible time because one 800 flowers is now also, if you go to their website, you'll see all the different places that are using 1-800-FLOWERS for selling upsells of cards.

So like Godiva Chocolates is a good example. I can't remember the other ones. Big companies. So we're seeing a lot of growth and the good thing about having a card like yours really take off is that it [00:18:00] pushes your card to the top. And what happens then is when somebody is buying a bouquet or sending a basket of chocolates, they have.

Cards come up to choose from. And if you're in that top 10 or 20 cards, well, you know what it's like if you're in the middle of doing something, you're not gonna go page after page looking at cards. If your card is higher up on the top there, you're more likely to get sales. So that's what's happening.

And that's something really fun for all of us who've been involved in the challenge. Now let me ask you. How did that experience shape your sense of niche and direction? I just would like to hear that from you.

Kim Snider: Let me think about how to answer that. I just, you know, once that happened and I started getting traction in real, I called it real money, like, wow, now I've made real money.

Because that equaled out to be a thousand, little over a thousand dollars. Which [00:19:00] is amazing. And so, I mean, I dabbled Zazzle. I'd get, you know, 30 bucks here, a hundred here, and that's, great. That's a couple lattes of dinner out. But when you're like, okay, maybe I can actually. Make some real money, and if this is gonna happen again, I gotta get my ducks in a row and what's the next holiday?

So it's Valentine's Day and then what's after that? Mother's Day. So I took the next two holidays and I just started creating art. My husband's like, whatever you just did, do it again. I go, I can't do it again. It was Christmas. It was a Christmas, whatever you did, just do it again. I'm like, okay. I'll do my best.

It just allowed me to really get more focused in and realize, okay, this is working. And so then I started getting a portfolio ready for pitching.

Delores Naskrent: Excellent.

Kim Snider: And I'm working on that now. And I started getting my website aligned with my goal, right, of greeting cards.

So I realized, If you looked at my website, you wouldn't realize that's my goal. And so I just [00:20:00] started kind of going through my socials and my websites and looking, let me align things. And now I have a greeting card gallery on my, website and I am posting cards and my socials and that kind of thing.

And I'm teaching classes. My friends come over and we make cards for every holiday and they love it. And so it's fun.

Delores Naskrent: That's so fantastic and that clarity is often what people are looking for. They really want to. Figure it out. And what's happened for you is you were experimenting and then this has now given you that intentional focus.

And so you're, you know, and it's just exactly what your husband said is. let's get this formula down. Let's figure it out. So I love that. That's really cool. And so great that he's, vested, you know, in, what your success will be, which is so different than the experience that shaped you at the beginning.

Right. Talk about opposites. Mm-hmm. [00:21:00] Now, you've also participated in the card challenges, which I know helped you with consistency, right.

Kim Snider: Yes, yes, definitely. And just dialing in how to take art that I may have already had. Mm-hmm. And kind of align it to a greeting card, which is not very hard, right?

Delores Naskrent: Yes. Consistency doesn't have to mean pressure. Sometimes it means. A gentle container. It's just sort of like, okay, you could do whatever art you want, but let's put it on a card and then you could possibly make some money from it, which you have proven is possible.

Kim Snider: Yes, and, and cards are, lovely, right?

Everybody loves to get a piece of mail, a real piece of mail, there's something magical about cards and they're not going away. In this world of texting and, just all of the things that are happening with AI and all of that, cards are not going away and artists are not going away.

Delores Naskrent: Exactly.

Kim Snider: I love that. Card Isle is like, this is for artists. Yeah.

Delores Naskrent: [00:22:00] Absolutely.

Kim Snider: It is just lovely to, think about what would I want to receive or give in a card. And what sentiment would I wanna send my friend? I'm always thinking that. when a friend's going through a hard time, what are the words that I wanna say to this friend now?

Yeah. And how can I put that in a card that other people might also resonate with? Right.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah. I love that. I have cards everywhere. receive cards and they surround me because. I just love looking at the art. They're all so different and they motivate me. You know, I'm sitting here creating cards, and I can look around every direction.

I can see a card.

Kim Snider: Yes. And the card challenge was great because everyone's working on the same goal and, and You really give us the freedom in your challenges. Like just do it your way with your art. Also, here's some help if you need it. Like, if you want to use my elements and, and here you go.

Let's just start practicing how to do it and get that kind of formula done. And then people are off and running and everybody is [00:23:00] on the Facebook group really supporting each other and having that focused Facebook group is. Because we're still going. Yes. The challenge was September.

Delores Naskrent: The challenge is end, but we still are open for business and everybody's helping everybody in there, which I love. So thanks for mentioning it. We'll definitely put, links in the show notes and we'll put your links into

Kim Snider: When are you doing it again? The challenge? Do you know?

Delores Naskrent: We're coming up to it we'll have everything. Connected here, like in the show notes, this will probably show around the time of the card challenge or getting closer to the card challenge. So we'll definitely have everything set out so people can get there easily to everything.

Kim Snider: Well, I'm doing it again, that's for sure. Yay. Yeah, because there's another place that I haven't tried. Everybody was talking about greeting card universe or something, right?

Delores Naskrent: Yes. Yep. We have lots of, success with. People on Greeting Card Universe as well. It's a little bit, harder for uploading, a little bit more challenging.

they [00:24:00] do have. Art direction that they do. So, it makes it a little bit more work, but we do have people who have been really successful. We often, one of my students will be chosen with the card of the week or, you know. Yeah.

Kim Snider: That's so cool. I see people post that. Yes.

Delores Naskrent: It's really, it's really wonderful. It really is. at this point, looking ahead, how are you thinking about licensing Does it feel like a natural next step for you?

Kim Snider: Well, I've always, I've wanted to license for a while, but it felt really, I took Bonnie Christine's immersion in, what, 2023 maybe.

Delores Naskrent: Oh, we were both there then,

Kim Snider: were we?

Delores Naskrent: Yeah, I was in it.

Kim Snider: Maybe. Yeah, I don't, I Now I'm wondering, was it 2024? I don't know. Anyway, took the class and you put, you got put in study groups if you signed up for that part. My study group is still meeting. We're still meeting all the time.

Delores Naskrent: Mine too.

Kim Snider: Is that so cool? Yes. So. We're all going in [00:25:00] different directions, but we meet every Saturday morning and we get on Zoom and we talk about, all this.

But the problem that I had was I don't like making patterns and I don't like Adobe Illustrator. So Adobe Illustrator and I try to become friends. Over and over. And I just finally had to cut off the relationship because I just, it would make me so upset and I just do not enjoy making patterns.

I'm learning now on procreate and I'm feeling a little better about it 'cause I feel like I have to have just a few for maybe envelope. Yeah. Interiors or something like that. Yeah. But I didn't wanna do patterns and I felt like that's where everybody was going. And I thought, well, if I'm not gonna do patterns.

And I'm not gonna do it on fabric, then I'm not gonna be able to do it.

Delores Naskrent: Right.

Kim Snider: Which is where this card thing came in very, very handy greeting card companies have to have artists.

Delores Naskrent: That's right.

Kim Snider: It doesn't have to be a pattern, it doesn't have to be an Adobe illustrator. It's small. It doesn't have to be a vector.

Yeah. I could do it on [00:26:00] procreate, I could do it by hand and have it. Be beautiful. Yeah. And so now I feel like I can do the licensing. So I'm actually working on a portfolio and a pitch email to a, company. So that's my first, I'm really nervous and I'm expecting to have to do it a lot of times.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah, absolutely.

Kim Snider: You're licensed.

Delores Naskrent: Yes. I love your approach to it. It's perfect. I got lucky because I was discovered at a craft sale, by the owners of. Hallmark stores in Winnipeg and in Brandon.

I had never even heard of art licensing and now you know that I'm into it in a big way and I, teach a lot of art licensing. So it was just a fluke, really. But that's how I got started in art licensing. But I do teach a lot of related courses to it.

it's been so fun to just hang out and talk like this. Yes. Thanks so much. Like thanks for sharing your story. I think so many listeners will see themselves in your journey, [00:27:00] especially the idea that it's never too late to pivot or to change your focus and to learn.

And I loved your whole story about teaching yourself at the beginning Even though you'd always had that in the back of your mind, once you started experimenting and getting out there and trying the different projects and things, you realized this is just a skill to learn.

It's wonderful. Wonderful to hear.

Kim Snider: Thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed this and I feel honored to be able to come and be a guest on this podcast. And I think it's probably great for people to see that, you know, I don't in any way feel that I have arrived anywhere.

I've had one card go viral and I'm working on the next step. And I think a lot of people are there or almost there, or, you know, one step past and we're all just. In there somewhere and I think it's helpful to see other people who haven't had this massive, massive success. know if I'm making any sense.

Delores Naskrent: You are, and to everyone [00:28:00] listening, I hope this conversation reminds you that creativity is allowed to unfold in layers. You don't have to have it all figured out, right. You just have to keep showing up. So keep creating, keep juggling, and most importantly, keep finding joy in the process.