Ep.101 - What Creative Business Growth Really Looks Like Behind the Scenes

July 26, 2026

When we recorded this episode, I was in the middle of launching Mastering Surface Pattern Design in Affinity Designer.

There were sales coming in, which was incredibly exciting, but there were also emails to answer, classes to update, replays to send and students who needed help finding the right links or accessing their courses.

That combination captures creative business growth rather well.

Growth can feel exciting and exhausting at the same time. There may be beautiful, visible results, but there is always a great deal of quieter work supporting them.

Creating More Structure Around the Creative Work

When Kaylie began working with me in August 2023, my business already contained years of teaching, artwork, classes, brush sets and a growing membership.

I had created many useful resources, but they did not always connect as clearly as they could.

So much of the information lived in my head. I was also doing most of the course setup, emails, teaching and administration myself.

Over the past three years, we have gradually created more structure around that work. Kaylie manages much of our email marketing, launch planning and customer pathways, while Abbie helps prepare courses inside Teachable.

That support gives me more space to concentrate on teaching and creating.

It has also helped us recognise what our students might need at each stage. Instead of simply making more products, we have been learning how to help someone move from beginner lessons into more advanced creative work without feeling lost along the way.

Learning Through Experimentation

Our first year of working together involved plenty of experimentation.

We tried challenges, workshops and different delivery methods. Some ideas worked beautifully. Others taught us what needed to change.

At one stage, we placed a free challenge inside Teachable. Many students enrolled in the free plan, but the path forward was not clear enough. That experience helped us rethink how we delivered future challenges and what participants genuinely needed after completing them.

The lesson was not that the challenge had failed. It gave us information we could use to make the next version stronger.

Every creative business develops this way. We try something, observe what happens and make thoughtful adjustments.

Better Systems Can Create a Calmer Business

The technology behind a business can become overwhelming, especially when it affects real students.

Creative software has always felt different to me. If I make a mistake while creating, I can usually undo it. Business systems affect emails, course access, payments and the information someone receives.

Moving from Flodesk to Kit felt intimidating because I was worried about losing people or disrupting their emails.

However, the change gave us more control over tags, automations and follow-up messages. It helped us send students information that better matched their interests and the stage they had reached.

The systems themselves are not particularly exciting, but they help people receive the right information at the right time. That makes the experience calmer for our students and for us.

Email Became Part of the Community

I used to feel uncomfortable sending emails. I worried about sending too many and felt genuinely upset when someone unsubscribed.

My relationship with email has changed a great deal since then.

Our newsletter is now a place where I can share stories, answer questions, offer encouragement and point readers towards useful classes, tools or replays.

It does not have to be a constant message asking people to buy something. It can feel like a conversation with the people who have chosen to stay connected.

Unsubscribes are still a normal part of email marketing. People’s interests and circumstances change. I have learned to look at the full picture: the open rates, clicks, replies and messages from readers who found something helpful.

Those responses remind me that email can be a generous and supportive part of a creative business.

What Happened Before the Launch

A successful launch is not created during the few days that enrolment is open.

Our July launch was supported by many earlier pieces. I reviewed the previous year’s notes, updated the Mastering Surface Pattern Design lessons and recorded new advanced projects.

We also shared Affinity Designer Basics before the launch, offered free workshops and participated in the Profitable Artist Summit. People had opportunities to experience my teaching and decide whether the main programme felt right for them.

By the time someone enrolled, they might have watched a workshop, opened several emails, taken an earlier class or heard about the programme from another student.

Those individual points of connection build trust over time.

Connected Offers Should Make Learning Easier

A creative business does not necessarily need one perfect offer. Several products can work well together when each one has a clear purpose.

A beginner course can help someone learn the software. A brush or asset pack can make the first project easier to complete. A larger programme can develop their skills, while an advanced course allows experienced students to continue learning.

The membership can then provide ongoing projects, practice and community.

I create brushes, templates and assets for the same reason I used to prepare extra resources for my high-school students. I want people to experience an early success rather than feeling defeated before they have properly begun.

An additional offer should support the result someone is already trying to achieve. When it does that, it can feel helpful rather than pushy.

Growth Creates More People to Support

The visible part of growth includes more subscribers, students and sales.

The hidden part includes more questions about:

Course access
Replays
Links
Logins
Coupons
Receipts
Checkouts
Payment providers
Session times and time zones

Sometimes answering emails can take an hour and a half of my morning. Clearer systems reduce confusion, but they cannot replace the human care that students need.

Customer support is now part of my brand. People have trusted me with their time, money and creative learning, and I want them to feel supported.

Our Circle community also plays an important part. Often, an experienced student answers a question before Kaylie or I have an opportunity to respond. That spirit of generosity makes the community feel like a shared creative space rather than simply another online course.

Success Can Still Be Messy

A business can be doing well while still having untidy areas behind the scenes.

Growth often reveals the systems that are no longer sufficient. More people are moving through them, which makes every confusing step easier to see.

That does not mean the business is failing. It means the business has reached a stage where its structure needs to grow too.

We still make mistakes. Links are missed, emails do not always behave as expected and some technical problems are outside our control.

What matters is that we learn, communicate and continue improving.

Quiet Growth Deserves Recognition

During the episode, Kaylie shared that her own business growth has been much less visible.

She has been working with more creative clients, taking on larger projects and developing her knowledge of launch planning, customer pathways and business systems.

She also opened a Card Isle shop and published her first greeting card.

These steps may not look as dramatic as a large public launch, but they are building experience, confidence and clarity.

Quiet growth might include:

Developing a useful skill
Improving a system
Testing a new product
Understanding your audience more clearly
Finding practical or emotional support
Returning to your creative work
Learning when to postpone an idea
Recognising that you need time to recover

Those foundations matter, even when other people cannot see them yet.

Making Room for Recovery

The past few months have included launches, workshops, summits and a great deal of activity.

It has been exciting, but it has also been exhausting.

When something works, it is easy to believe we should immediately do more. However, more opportunities also create more work, fulfilment and support.

A busy season may be worthwhile, but it cannot become our permanent pace. Growth without recovery can begin to feel like a very fancy treadmill.

We cannot wait for every task to be finished before resting. In a creative business, there will always be another idea, lesson, email or project waiting.

Rest needs to become part of the plan.

Recognising Your Current Season

If your business feels quiet at the moment, consider what might be developing underneath the surface.

Are you clearer than you were a few months ago?

Do you understand your customers or students more deeply?

Are you improving the systems that will eventually give you more time?

Are you becoming more confident or finding people who can support you?

Visible growth and foundation-building are both valuable seasons. Neither one is wrong.

Creative business growth is rarely one dramatic breakthrough. It is the result of many thoughtful steps beginning to connect.

Some links in this post may be affiliate links, which means either Kaylie or Delores may receive a small commission (at no extra cost to you). We only share tools or products we genuinely love and use ourselves.

TRANSCRIPT:

Kaylie Edwards: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Creative Juggle Joy podcast. In the last episode, we marked our 100th episode and talked about what we're carrying forward into the next chapter. Today, we're following on from that with the more practical behind-the-scenes conversation about creative business growth, and the timing feels quite fitting because we're recording this right in the middle of Delores' Mastering Surface Pattern Design in Affinity Designer launch.

Summer launch. So we're not talking about growth in theory, we're talking, actually talking about it whilst we're in the middle of it. There are emails going out, sales coming in, support questions being answered, replays being shared, coupons being checked again and again- ... all the moving pieces of launch happening in real time.

Delores Naskrent: And that's what makes it really useful at this moment to talk about what growth actually looks like and feels like, because growth is not just the visible things. It's not just the launch numbers or the course sales or a [00:01:00] bigger email list or summits or big announcements, it's also all of this hidden work underneath.

This is the stuff that we have to do every day, Kaylie and I. The systems, the emails, the support, the follow-up, the offers that connect together, and all of the little decisions that make a creative business keep moving.

Kaylie Edwards: Yes. And exactly. So today, we're talking about the growth you can see and the work you can't.

Delores, when you think about growth in your business over the past few years that we've worked together, what comes to mind first?

Delores Naskrent: We could I guess say it's the numbers. We could say it's the numbers, how many more people we have in and on the email list. We could say all of that kind of stuff. That's all statistical, but really there's been so much more that has happened, so much more that's going on behind. And really right now, for me it's more about how much more [00:02:00] structured the business feels than it did before.

Growth is obviously very exciting, but this has also brought a lot of other moving pieces here to our little corner of the world, and for us it's not been just about the sales, definitely not. It's been about having our students feel supported and having help behind the scenes that has made the business feel like everything is sitting, somewhere where we can actually physically do stuff with it rather than all in my head.

And I think for me, growth has totally allowed me to focus more on teaching and creating, but it's also really shown me where better systems are needed.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. One of the first things I want to say is that growth is not usually one thing. It is easy to look at business and say, "That worked because of the launch," or, "That happened because of the emails," or, "That was because of ads or summits."

But usually it is the combination of things working [00:03:00] together. For Delores Art, there was already a really strong foundation before I came in. You already had the teaching experience, loyal students, the membership you'd already started, the teachable school, your artwork, your classes, and the trust of your community as well.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah. And what changed was that more structure started to come in and around that. We got much more consistent with emails. To be completely honest, before you came along, Kaylie, I wasn't really even doing any of that properly. I definitely was very inconsistent with my emails. We've also built structures around launching.

So we have everything figured out, we're doing it months in advance if we can. We're a lot more connected with our offers. We're figuring all of that out like I said, well in advance, so we know exactly what we're doing in, let's say, the month before a launch, the week before a launch, the day before a launch.

We're [00:04:00] also doing a lot more follow-up, and we're thinking a lot more about the customer journey. We're thinking about the backend systems that can make it easier for us each time. I think you were 100% right. You nailed it in the last episode when you talked about AI helping us out with this. We're both using it quite a bit with our organization.

And so the growth was not just from one single thing, not just one thing. It was from all of those pieces starting to work together- together much more clearly. And I wanna emphasize that this is the third year. So the first year was just flying by the seat of our pants.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah.

Delores Naskrent: The second year was, "Okay, this is what didn't work last year, so let's do this now and that, and let's make sure this is in place."

And so now we're in our third year of working together, and we have all of the systems from those previous two years working together much more clearly for us.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. [00:05:00] Yeah. And obviously, we both have added ideas to things- We do ... when we think, "Oh, this would be a good idea." And it's like, "Oh, no. No, it's not a good idea," because now we are right up to another launch after we've just come out of a launch.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah.

Kaylie Edwards: So yeah, I think we've learnt a lot a lot about time as well, and with ourselves as well 'cause, it's easy for one of us to say, "Oh, we'll do this," but then it's the other one needs to be able to do it as well at the same time 'cause w- we both need time off.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah.

Kaylie Edwards: Although my holidays were the last one was a bit too close for me for planning. I normally know months in advance when we're going away on holiday, but yeah, it was, like, four weeks, and I was just like, "No, this isn't good." But luckily We'd had systems put in place and, I know how to repurpose content fairly quickly now, so it's so much easier now.

And it was so much quicker to do. Yes, obviously, I still miss stuff but that's what growth helps with us, is that now we [00:06:00] know how we're doing things, how things connect, and get things done faster. And Delores, from your side, what felt disconnected before and what feels more connected now?

Delores Naskrent: We plan well in advance, so I record classes for the following six months.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah.

Delores Naskrent: So then I can put all of those into the, right order for you to be able to create emails around them. It helps Abbie to be able to set up the courses on Teachable for me. I used to do all of it myself, and now between the two of you, you're covering a lot of what I used to do alone.

So that's been really helpful because then I can focus more on content. The next step has not always been obvious, honestly. With the membership and the courses and the workshops and all of that stuff, they weren't working together as clearly as they could before you and I started working together.

We [00:07:00] cobbled it together the first year, and-

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah ...

Delores Naskrent: now we've got a real funnel. It works, it makes sense, and I think it's because we're working around where we see the student needing something. Yeah. We are looking at what is needed and what do they need next. So growth has not come from, losing the heart of the business at all.

If anything, I think it's really expanded on having that heart still at the most important part of our structure. Totally. It's heart that's in the middle of it, for sure.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. Sometimes growth does not come from creating something brand-new. It's, sometimes growth comes from connecting what you already have, and you had so much when I first got on board anyway.

And I was just like what do I do with

Delores Naskrent: this?" I know.

Kaylie Edwards: What do you promote? Because you've got so much stuff, and it's trying to figure out the connections between everything that you already had as well when we [00:08:00] first worked together. Yeah. It was 'cause you, obviously, you had your brushes sets, and you had your classes, individual classes, then you had the membership.

And obviously we have the big courses yet. No. Which, obviously, that's come into fruition from us working together and, the big ideas that come along. No, but it was just I think I turned round to you and I said, "You need something that people can just take at the beginning, the very beginning.

Otherwise it's a bit confusing." 'Cause if you're into the membership, it's all projects. Yeah. Short projects, isn't it? So it was that continuation of how can we get them at the very beginning of their journey and not the intermediate. 'Cause you had beginners and they were a little bit confused, and then we were like, "Okay, how do we get this to work?"

And that's how we came through and tried to connect it all. And when I first came on board in August 2023 now, the email list was around 1,742 subscribers.

Delores Naskrent: Wow.

Kaylie Edwards: And now we're up to [00:09:00] 12,000 and something. I did have the number somewhere.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah.

Kaylie Edwards: But we're up to 12,000 odd. And there was already a lot there, but there was also a lot of moving parts in, on the side when I first come in.

At the time you were with Flodesk- Yes ... the email service provider, which was fairly new as well, and there were so many manual steps. Zapier was connecting different platforms. We were trying to make Teachable, Circle, email workshops, tags all try and talk to each other, and that was where it just, yeah, it almost started falling apart, didn't it?

As we got into, I think it was the first year, wasn't it, and then the second year beginning- Yeah ... just before. So just be flexible. Yeah

Delores Naskrent: Yeah. And that's... I know. It was when we were going through that. I remember we did that first challenge that was before we ever did the card challenges. Yeah We had done a completely different challenge, and we realized once we put that together that it was good and it really did help draw people in, but it wasn't [00:10:00] specific to what most people were doing or wanting to do within the membership.

So then we realized from that first challenge that we had to create a different type of challenge, and I think we just started to realize that, for these people who were coming in to my circle, that they needed that first step. What can they make and what can they sell? How can they get to that first stage of their business?

And at a certain point, things just needed to become a lot clearer and more reliable for us, and I remember you suggesting that we switch out of Flodesk and set up with Kit. Yeah And it was called ConvertKit at the time because it would allow us to really do what we really needed to do to get people just into the circle, into trying to understand what they needed to do next.

And honestly things like that, [00:11:00] systems like that, they're not exciting on their own, but because they help people get the right information at the right time- Yeah ...

Kaylie Edwards: it works. Yeah. Yeah, but we've also refined as well from that first challenge. Yeah The thing is, that first challenge I suggested to you, you then wanted to do the card challenge pretty much straight after, I think.

It was like... I think it was a month difference. And it was like, "Okay, we'll do this." And we made it. We did make it work. And It was really successful, the first one. And then, obviously, we then had to refine how we were delivering that 'cause the first year was a bit hodgepodge. And then the second year...

Sorry, no, it was in the fall, wasn't it? We'd done the spring challenge, and then it was the fall one, and we were like, "Oh, we'd move it to Teachable."

Delores Naskrent: Right

Kaylie Edwards: Free, wasn't it? We let the people join in for free on Teachable. Then we realized that's a problem. That's a problem because they're joining. We're having tons of students join on the free plan, and they weren't converting, and we didn't really know how to do it So yeah, [00:12:00] that changed.

So we, it's all part of experimenting as well Yeah It's building those systems but also trying to figure out what works and how to deliver it properly in a way that makes sense for people. Yeah. And I think that was one of the big shifts, was moving from patchwork, cobbling stuff together, different platforms, to better infrastructure and things like moving to Kit, improving the tags, setting up automations, and building better launch emails as well, making sure people got the right follow-ups.

Yeah. And none of that looks dramatic from the outside, but it makes a huge difference. Delores, what that, what did that system side feel like for you? Especially as someone who loves the creative tools but maybe not always the business tech, which I end up doing mostly.

Delores Naskrent: Yes. Oh my God. The tech side was so overwhelming for me at first Creative software to me feels different from business tech because business tech affects students, it affects access, emails, sales.

[00:13:00] That's definitely your department, my dear. Moving platforms at that point too felt really scary because I had really just learned Flodesk and I didn't want to, lose people. I didn't want them to stop receiving emails. I really was super tentative about switching, but you talked me into it, and honestly, the better systems have really made launches feel a lot more calm.

And we've been able to do so much in the backend in the way of creating tags and automations and clearer follow-ups, which means that students are less likely to fall through the cracks. I think it's much more helpful for them because they get the information that they need. And we can divide people up into the categories that they fit - best with.

So the systems have definitely given me more space to teach and create, and it's given it a [00:14:00] structure so it makes sense.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. And obviously, don't get me wrong, like this, we've still got work to do in the backend. Yeah ... and obviously we still make mistakes. Like I do make mistakes, but half the time I'm working at 1:00 in the morning and trying and then getting up at 7:00 in the morning and trying to do my day.

So there is times where I've, I think I've got it, and then I'm just like... And then Delores is "What? What is this?" I don't know. I don't know what I was doing. So sometimes, like we check each other's work, so that's tries to do it. But then yeah, an email, there might be a link that's missed or wrong in an email and it happens and, we're human.

Yeah ... even when we've got the systems in place. And like the one, yeah, the one , that happened today, that was my fault. And yeah, I just got so into the habit of doing AB testing. I didn't realize that you do AB test- testing on a reminder email. It doesn't go out to everybody in the time that you want it to.

So yeah, that was my fault and I didn't realize, we live

Delores Naskrent: and [00:15:00] learn. We live and learn

Kaylie Edwards: And, and email is a huge part of that too. A lot of artists feel nervous about email list marketing, and, I was as well at the beginning. I only did it 'cause I was doing it through previous employment.

And, they, creators worry about sending too much or annoying people or being too salesy. And yes, sometimes it does annoy people. At the end of the day, no matter what you do is gonna annoy somebody. But email gives people a chance to actually see what is happening. People are busy. They miss things.

They need reminders. They need contacts. If I didn't have a reminder about some things I wouldn't do it.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah. And email doesn't have to be just, "Buy this," like the infomercial kind of a thing. It can be just about the teaching, that's what I love about our newsletter because it's storytelling, and we're answering questions, and we're pointing people maybe to a resource or a replay.

We're explaining who something is for. We're helping someone choose the right [00:16:00] next step. This is very different from just shouting about offers all the time. We're trying to create a home when we have our newsletter. It's talking to the people on our list. And we might get that one or two people who are mad about getting too many emails, but that's out of 12,500 people.

Yeah. So if we get... If we make two people mad, I am so sorry, but I think we're still gonna keep doing it.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. You know what? I love doing the newsletter because I get to be a part of that as well. And It so nice when we have somebody say "This is what I needed," or, "I love this 'cause it gave me some inspiration this week.

I really needed that." And that makes me happy as well, 'cause I know it's your business, but I helped create that email, and it's lovely to hear and see things as well. Yeah. And Delores, how has your relationship with email changed [00:17:00] since the beginning?

Delores Naskrent: For me, I think at first emailing made me feel uncomfortable, but I feel like it's the opposite now.

I feel like I like being able to be in people's inboxes and talk to them about the things that are going on. I think that most of the responses that we get are really encouraging. In the newsletter, we really don't do any promoting. We're basically just sharing resources, giving people ideas.

I love how we tie the email into whatever the podcast was that week, and I think that is helpful anybody listening to the podcast and reading the newsletter that they get to find out about things like the classes, the workshops, the tools, things that really fit them. And I've also learned that unsubscribes are normal [00:18:00] and not to take it personal. I can remember looking at the unsubscribes and just being, like, devastated. Dagger in the heart. Yeah. "That person left my email list." But now I've learned that it's not personal, and email has just... I don't know. It's okay. It's cool. I actually enjoy going into Kit and looking at the statistics- Yeah

That they give us on our main page, and then understanding that those statistics mean that we are really engaging with people well.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. It's even as somebody who's working for you and doing emails, and I see unsubscribes myself, and I'm just like, "" or we've had more unsubscribes than we've got people on that week or that day, and I'm just like, "Oh, God, it's a negative."

And then I'm just thinking, "Why am I being silly about this?" Because at the end of the day you have such a high open rate and click rate. And I'm like clearly we're doing something right." Absolutely. If you actually look at the statistics, it's not that [00:19:00] bad, and you're gonna have this, this thing where you're gonna have more unsubscribes one week than you are the next.

And you've just gotta think of that as life because, people go through their seasons as well. They might not want the emails anymore because they're not doing whatever they were getting the emails for. And it's just one of them things. Yeah. And we're going through the current Mastering Surface Pattern Design Infinite Designer launch, which is a really good example of how these pieces work together.

We are recording this during the July 2026 launch. The cart opened on June 29th and closes will be closing on July 11th. By today, which is the third day, we have already seen really encouraging start. On June 30th, which was yesterday, which was the second day of the open cart period, around 3,300- thousand came in of sales

Delores Naskrent: Wow.

Yeah. Crazy.

Kaylie Edwards: That's, and as of July 1st, which is today, the launch period has brought in around [00:20:00] $11,585 in the last seven days. That's just before the launch and the launch, as the summits and pre-launch promotions helped us ramp up those sales as well. So we did some little promotions for Affinity Designer basics and things on the side as well to try and get people interested in doing it.

And it's just, yeah, before we even opened cart we'd got a ton of sales. Yeah. So it just goes to show how much it works

Delores Naskrent: And this morning, Kaylie, I stopped myself from looking at the sales figure. On Teachable it changes at about 3:00 in the afternoon, so I knew yesterday when I went to bed that I had made the 3.3K from the day before.

But I didn't know what the total was as of today until I did all of the work that I needed to do first. I stopped myself from looking. I did all of my emails. I responded to everybody that I needed to. I waited until after 10:00 [00:21:00] AM this morning before I looked at it, and I was so shocked that I literally had to stand up and go into the other room, and I couldn't even tell my husband-

what I had done in sales. I was in tears. I was so thankful. And, that's just the context that I want you to understand because it's a reflection, like the direct reflection of the success that we've had when I look at something like this and I feel we're really reaching people.

That's what's so exciting and important about it is that we're really reaching people. All of those things that you talked about, the connected offers, the order bumps, the up-sells, the asset packs, the brush sets, all of that are related revenue. But it means that we're giving people the things that they need.

It's just so rewarding. And you know that I'm in [00:22:00] Canada.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah.

Delores Naskrent: So right now the exchange rate is 1.42. 1.42. So you take those figures and you multiply by 1.42, wow. This is the most money I've ever made, and when I went to talk to my husband about it, it was to say, "I feel like I won the lottery."

Really.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah, 'cause the exchange rate between the Canadian and the US is like, what? Yeah. But then you look, it's backwards for me. Backwards. It's not too bad. 'Cause if I 'cause if I buy a course or something, it's like, looks so much higher. The tax on it is so much higher, and then I put it in pounds and I'm like, "Oh, actually it's not that bad."

Oh, yeah. Yeah

Delores Naskrent: Yeah. Yeah I think that's definitely been a really big deal for me this week. I've been exhausted, but then I've been elated as well.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. And a successful launch is usually not built during a week [00:23:00] the cart is open. It's built in the weeks and months before.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah.

Kaylie Edwards: You're ... we planned it since last year.

You made all your notes from last year's launch, and you made sure that you were implementing it weeks and months before. And from your side, how has this launch felt compared with earlier launches?

Delores Naskrent: I feel like I am calmer because there's more of a structure around the launch. I feel like I have a better idea of what I really need to do.

We've started a new course. Don't laugh, Kaylie. Come on. You knew I was gonna do it. But I've- Oh, yeah ... I added the alumni version, so I have been madly recording classes. In addition to the regular amount of recording that I have done, I've recorded a ton of new classes. I've also gone in and I've- Really gone through each of the classes that's in Mastering Surface Pattern Design and updated them all.

So there's [00:24:00] been all of that. I feel like even though there's been all of this crazy busyness with this launch, it feels more organized. I think that also the free workshop and the summit, the Profitable Artist Summit, really helped warm people up because I did not one, but two live workshops. And I think, I always feel as though I didn't really do as much or do it as well as I wanted to, but I think it really helped warm people up before the cart even opened.

'Cause, yeah, we're seeing all of those related sales that come along with the main course and that shows me that people are feeling comfortable enough to enter into this. So that makes the launch feel like, I don't know, a big announcement and more about being connected. So it's I don't know, just a [00:25:00] way in, I guess is the best way to describe it.

A connected pathway.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. It's like I know you've done the work in Deep Dive, and that's basically the advanced version of Mastering Surface Pattern Design, and we've launched it at the same time. But to be fair, we did open it a little bit ahead of time 'cause you wanted to send it to people who took the course last year so they can get the advanced version.

And obviously beforehand we've been promoting the the basics as well- Yes ... to get people in, and we've done that. It's a continuation of the customer journey 'cause obviously we're taking people from beginner into intermediate into advanced, basically, and we've continued that, and I think that's why we've had so much success this time before we've even gone through a week.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah.

Kaylie Edwards: And I think by the time someone buys, they may have already attended a workshop, opened several emails, watched a replay. They've come in from the summit or they've bought a smaller product, taken a previous class, or simply seen enough of your teaching style to trust you And

I obviously edit your [00:26:00] Thrive meetings and seeing hearing people like weeks, months in advance going, "When's the course coming out? When's the course coming out?" And I'm just like, "Stop it. Stop it." Wait. Wait for it.

Delores Naskrent: Yes. Yeah. You'll get your chance. It has been really great, like all of that leading up to it, and I really enjoy doing, creating those advanced projects knowing specifically who they were going to be for.

People who I had already had in Mastering Surface Pattern Design- Yeah ... can now continue their journey doing some really in-depth sort of projects, which is really fun and exciting. And the idea for putting basics out there came from one of my students, Melanie. And Melanie- Melanie, yeah

mentioned to me, "Yeah, you should start telling people about basics like two, three weeks in advance." I think we, the first ad we managed to get out almost a month... I think it was in one of the newsletters, maybe three [00:27:00] weeks ago or a month ago that we started selling basics for people who were interested.

Yeah, 'cause it was

Kaylie Edwards: before I went on holiday I think it wasn't it?

Delores Naskrent: Yeah, I think

Kaylie Edwards: I thought I put the first one out whilst... Oh, it was whilst I was on holiday or just before.

Delores Naskrent: Yes. And so that worked out perfect because we've had so many people come in and through that course. So when we look at the numbers and we're talking about these big numbers for the Mastering Surface Pattern Design, we haven't even included the sales for those other things leading up to it.

So that's been pretty amazing to think about.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. Another growth discovery has been the power of connected offers. That's what we've been saying. A lot of creative business owners think they need one just perfect offer or a hodgepodge of different things, and clarity is important. You do not want a messy shop or confusing- ... customer journey, and that's what I think over the past three years we've been doing, is trying to build that customer journey and make it less confusing from the outside. Where do people go? Like, how does their [00:28:00] journey start? Where they come in?

What path do they take?

Delores Naskrent: Yeah. We have definitely been working on that and I've been talking about that with my members a lot more. We're thinking about all of that, how we're going to, in the membership, create the perfect journey, and there's a lot of work to be done there. But having more than one product can work really well when these products naturally support each other, which is the thing that we've really noticed.

So a brush set can be the small first purchase that somebody makes. An asset pack can help support a course. It makes it easier when people are in Affinity Designer for the first time if they have those assets to work with. An order bump can make checkout more useful. An upsell can show the next step.

So all of these things are what we've been behind the scenes working on. The membership, that can support people long-term, so we'll see what happens right after the [00:29:00] course ends if we have people hop into the membership. We've had a few people this week, so-

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah, we have ... I'm

Delores Naskrent: thinking, I'm thinking that it's working together.

So the key is that all of those offers need to make sense together.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. Yeah, it does. And Delores, as the teacher and artist behind the products, how do you decide whether an extra offer feels genuinely helpful rather than just salesy?

Delores Naskrent: I think about it just exactly how I always did when I was teaching even in high school. I would create brush packs or templates or asset packs just to make it a little bit easier for the students right at the beginning. So I wanted it to be so that they felt successful right at the start, 'cause I think that gives you much more incentive than if you have to struggle.

And I know just from experience, I'm talking back to Adobe Illustrator days, Adobe Illustrator was brutal to learn.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah.

Delores Naskrent: For teenagers, it was brutal. And so I always [00:30:00] had to try to figure out ways to make it easier, and so I still do that. So I don't want to just add random things in to create more sales.

I have literally had people say to me, "You give too much away. You are giving way too much. You're giving 30 brushes with this class."

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah, I used to say that to you at the beginning. I was like, "What are you doing? You're not even selling this. What are you doing? This is too much free stuff.

We need to start selling some of this stuff."

Delores Naskrent: Yeah. And, we've had different types of students, and we know that they need different levels of support, which is exactly how it was when I was teaching in high school. So with some things it's just I really just wanna help them So that they can get in there and start using the software.

That's what's important, is getting in and using the software and doing a lot of repetition. And so sometimes if I can give different brushes and assets for students to work with, they can learn without feeling [00:31:00] super pressured. They can have fun at the beginning, and I can make it easier and so it's clearer for them.

, They know what the next step is, and they're not overwhelmed.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. That distinction really matters. It's not just about throwing random things at people, it's about asking what would genuinely help this person get a better result.

Delores Naskrent: Yep. And if the offer supports what they are already trying to learn or create, I think it feels helpful, not pushy.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. And this is the bit people do not always see. More growth means more opportunity, but it also means more support is needed. More subscribers mean more questions you've gotta answer. Yep. More students means more support. More launches mean more moving parts.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah. No kidding. And behind the scenes there's so many of those practical things.

We have so many questions about links, about replays, about logins, about coupons-

Kaylie Edwards: Oh,

Delores Naskrent: coupons. ... about, ugh, and course access. How to get, where is this? I can't find this, or how do I do [00:32:00] this? And issues with checkout, things like that. We just had one this week that, completely out of my control is the Klarna payment system that Teachable uses, so- Oh, yes ... I have to resolve the issue even though I have no control over it at my end. So there's always confusion with things like times and-

Kaylie Edwards: Time zones ...

Delores Naskrent: sessions, time zones, then receipts, where to find things. I could go on and on, and all of that matters because customer service is part of my brand now.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. Just it's part of life and business, it's, yeah, it's difficult and sometimes you just can't get back to people straight away. Or it's just easier to send a blanket email to people- Yeah ... who are asking for a replay, like they did this week, soon as we done... No, I don't even think we'd had actually finished up the work, the live workshop before people were asking for the replay.

Yeah. And I'm like, "Yeah, there's a replay. It'll be here. You'll get it." Yeah. "But I, we just can't give it to you straight away."

Delores Naskrent: Yes.

Kaylie Edwards: So I just ignored a [00:33:00] lot of the emails until the next morning. I was like, I'll get the replay done, and then I'll just- Yeah ... send the email out. Yes. I'm not replying to everybody.

Delores Naskrent: For sure.

Kaylie Edwards: So Delores, what do you think people underestimate about the hidden work behind growing a creative business?

Delores Naskrent: Huh, that's a good one. People see the class or the launch, but they don't realize the emails and the support that goes behind it, just like we were just talking about. If we look... If I look at Kit, I can't remember, last week I looked at it, and we had sent something like 200,000 emails.

Kaylie Edwards: Since being with Kit- Like- Yeah.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah. It's crazy. So during the launch, there's all those questions that come in at once, and then the questions are completely understandable. I get it, but they still take time to answer, the emails. It takes me an hour and a half sometimes in the morning to answer all the emails.

The students do need to feel supported. After all, that's why they're here, and that's what I'm here for, but it is [00:34:00] definitely a challenge. So for us, clearer systems reduce the confusion, but there's always gonna be human support needed. So growth means more people to help, not just more sales. Good support protects the trust that the people have in the business, and so really things like the community, the circle group having people who will answer the questions before I even get a chance to get to them, all of those things really help.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. It's great 'cause I get the notifications from HubSpot as well, and I get tagged in things, and I'm just like, I go and answer it, and then luckily, somebody's already answered it, and I'm just like, "Oh, thank God." It saves me five, 10 minutes or the half an hour trying to draft a reply back to somebody and send them to links.

But luckily some- oh, there's so many students in there that help out. Otherwise I'll be in the emails as well, 'cause I get- Yeah ... confused in the email system sometimes of what support has been answered and what hasn't as well.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah.

Kaylie Edwards: That's something that we're [00:35:00] working towards trying to figure out, and I think that is one of the honest parts of growth.

A business can be successful and still have messy pieces behind the scenes.

Delores Naskrent: Oh, yes. Messy is a good word for it. That's a gentle word for it. 'Cause sometimes growth reveals the messy pieces because more people are moving through the system, and it doesn't mean that our business is failing.

In fact, it means the opposite. It's just that we need all of those systems to grow with the business.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. And I think a good thing with us is that we riff off each other as well, and we give each other the support because, you... Sometimes I'll see an email before you do, and- Yeah

it's like, it could be a horrible one, and it's just the one-off on the day that we just feel like crap because we've just come out of a launch or we're in the middle of it, and it's just one person being really negative and you're just like, "Go away." But then we'll both talk about it, and we'll be fine, and then we'll just send a good reply back.

And- ... [00:36:00] it's just that behind the scenes that people don't really see-

Delores Naskrent: Yeah ...

Kaylie Edwards: as well. And this leads into something really important. Growth can be exciting and heavy at the same time. Yeah. When something works, the temptation is to do more of it. More summits, more emails, more launches. And next year, not so many summits, for God's sake.

Delores Naskrent: No way.

Kaylie Edwards: It was like, promote this, promote that. Oh, there's another summit I've talking about. It's like, where did this come from? When did you apply for this? You didn't even tell me. And then suddenly it's like, you need to do five emails. Oh, God. I've just done this one. But yeah, more launches, more offers, more collaborations, more everything.

Yeah, so it, it's been a crazy year.

Delores Naskrent: It has been.

Kaylie Edwards: Even when we planned it. Yes. We planned it last year.

Delores Naskrent: I know. And sometimes for a season that is so worth it, but it can't be the forever pace. We just can't do it. And I agree. Less summits next year. I think, I would say grow the list, but take your time [00:37:00] doing it.

If you have a big launch, you need time to recover from it. Trust me, I've just left from... we just did the summit, and literally the day after, I- Monday. The summit ended Sunday, and Monday I was, like, knee-deep in the launch. It was tough. And yeah, If you wanna sell more products, you need support and fulfillment to keep up.

Growth without recovery can turn into a very fancy treadmill. Trust me.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. Delores, how have the last few months felt with so many launches and summits and promotions?

Delores Naskrent: Absolutely freaking exhausting. That's the only way I could put it. It's been exciting too, though. 'Cause we've, brought more people in, so we've increased our total count of people that are in the orbit of Delores Art, and that means new opportunities.

Yes, there's [00:38:00] always another deadline, another email, another replay or a question, but it's been exciting and exhausting at the same time, if that makes sense.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. I think this is such an important lesson. Yes. Time off cannot only happen when everything is finished, because in growing a business, everything is never finished.

That's right. There's always something new to do, especially with Delores.

Delores Naskrent: Sorry.

Kaylie Edwards: Because we'll- Yeah ... do something, and we're in the middle of it, and she's "Oh, we should do this as well." No, we really shouldn't. We really should not be doing that right now. You should be resting.

Delores Naskrent: Let's talk about you again, Kaylie.

Let's talk about your growth and what's happening- Oh ... with you right now.

Kaylie Edwards: My, my stuff's on hold. Like- ... I put mine on hold. I had to because I just... I can't deal. I can't deal. There is so much stuff I need to get back to. But yeah, I'm waiting for this to die down a bit, and then obviously we've got the summer holidays.

Oh, God, I dread it. I'm dreading it, the summer [00:39:00] holidays, of Aston being off for so long. Six weeks is so long. They should break it up. They should break it up. Back in for one week, off for two or something. I just feel like it's too long, especially when my partner's gotta work.

He does night shifts. He's gotta work. And trying to fit everything around is, yeah, it's gonna be tough. But I just gotta deal with it and cobble together childcare as much as I can and still work at the same time. So time off cannot only happen, yeah, when when I want to. Yeah.

I also want to talk briefly about my own business growth because obviously while Delores Art has had more visible growth, mine has looked quieter. And I think that is important for listeners as well. Growth does not always look like big launches or big revenue days.

Sometimes growth looks like skill building, client work, testing ideas, gaining confidence, and learning what you do not want to do.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah.

Kaylie Edwards: Or you, what you do want to do. Building foundations that are not fully visible. Like I have been trying to build systems [00:40:00] for myself so I can get more time.

So yeah, it doesn't look like there's a lot going on the outside right now. I'm not posting consistently apart from obviously the podcast and things. So yeah it doesn't look like much from the outside, but I am doing a lot on the inside. And for me, a lot of my own business Has felt slower on the surface because I have been focused so much on client work this

second quarter of the year. Yeah. Yeah, this year is one of the wins has been getting to work with more creatives. That's a big win for me as I've got to work with more people. Yeah ... and see other businesses. And, there are, have been wins. I opened up on CardAisle, my own shop on CardAisle.

I'd set up on Spoonflower, which I haven't actually put my repeat patterns up on there yet. I do have some. But I'm waiting, especially now this approval thing's come out. I wanna make sure I get it right the first time round. And but yeah, I've got my first card up on CardAisle whilst I was on holiday, which was a, a small win, it is a win at the end of the day.

Yeah. And then obviously, yeah, I ended up [00:41:00] on taking bigger client projects this year as well as some other smaller ones. And then of course there is all the work to do with Delores Art. So yeah. So behind the scenes it's been a lot and yeah. And with Aston there's been so much going on.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah. Always.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. Seasons and, he's a toddler, but he's also in that phase where he just wants to be a pain in my butt, to be quite frank. Does not want to listen. But yeah, that's just how it isn't it? It's how life goes.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah. It really is. And that's growth too. You may not think of it as growth, but it is growth.

And it might not always look like your own big public launch, but it's still building something. It's building experience, it's building confidence, clarity I'm sure. Just you're seeing these other businesses from the outside, that gives you clarity for your own business.

It gives you a better understanding of what creative businesses actually need, and all of those things matter.

Kaylie Edwards: [00:42:00] Yeah. Exactly. My own business growth might not look might look slower from the outside, but I, a lot has been happening underneath and small steps with my own creative work, like getting back to actually creating again and getting my first card onto CardAisle has just been, yeah.

It's just I've got ideas. The thing is I've got loads of ideas, as and it's trying to get to that idea to be able to put it out into the world. Yeah ... I do have a site. I paid for four years of hosting, for Hostinger site. And yeah, it's there. I just haven't- customized it yet.

Got a product up on there, just haven't done anything with it yet.

Delores Naskrent: It's just a matter of time. Just hang in there. I know just even the fact that you've taken on these new clients, to me makes me feel really proud of you. I think that- Thank you ... your growth may not be visible on the outside, but it certainly is visible to me, looking in from the outside.

Your role has definitely evolved from just support into a lot more strategy and [00:43:00] things like launch planning and systems and customer journey thinking. And not just for me, this... you're doing this with other clients as well, and I think that is powerful. That's really powerful. And even when it slows down your own offers, you're really doing the thing.

You're working inside the real creative businesses, and that gives you insight that you can't learn any other way. So Behind the Scenes- Yeah ... work really has taught you what artists actually need help with. Quiet growth still counts, Kaylie- ... because it creates a foundation for your future offers.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah.

It's like one of your students who is a student of mine, and sometimes she'll message me and she'll just go... She'll just ask me how I'm doing. And it's just the fact that I can just talk to her and .." she actually turned around to me one day and said, "No, you shouldn't be doing this right now.

You need to focus on this. You need to do this yourself and just focus on this." And I think that I needed. I just needed that, 'cause I felt bad that I [00:44:00] hadn't relaunched when I needed to, when I felt like I needed to. And she was like- ... no. Just take the time and come back to it." And That, coming from a student just helped so much

Delores Naskrent: Absolutely.

Even outside of the business strategy, that kind of support really matters, when somebody actually thanks you or tells you're doing great. And I know sometimes growth depends on whether you have childcare, family support, friends nearby, people checking in, or for me, it's that my husband is actually feeding me, making my meals.

Even someone who can watch your kid for an hour I'm sure would make such a difference for you, and that way you can finish up that one thing that would have taken three times as long if he was there. So this is part of that creative juggle, right? This is exactly why we've called this the Creator Juggle Joy.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. It's since we moved to the village and [00:45:00] Aston started school, I'm actually spending time with other people. I'm not at my laptop or in the house all the day. With just, with my child. So I'm actually speaking to you. I made friends with some of the moms, and, Aston's got a friend across the road, literally across the road, and sometimes they'll be like, can I go to and I'm like- Yeah ... "Yeah, okay, you can go." And it's all right 'cause he can go for an hour, and then I'm just like, "Actually, I'm just gonna go for a bath." Yes. Because I can go uninterrupted for an hour. And it's just, that's just how it is at the moment. It's just a season of life. So if we were to pull out a few lessons for listeners, I think the first one is growth needs a foundation, and marketing works better when there is something genuinely valuable underneath as well.

Delores Naskrent: Absolutely. Absolutely. And consistency compounds. So one email, if that's all you can do, or one workshop, or one summit, or one podcast episode, it might not change everything on its own, but over time, these touch points build [00:46:00] trust.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah, it does. And connected offers can make a big difference. You do not always need something brand new.

Sometimes you just need to connect what already exists.

Delores Naskrent: And systems matter more, trust me. As you grow, get those systems in place. That setup that works at one stage may not support the next, so you always have to be thinking about that and growing it and just trying to figure out what it is that support really means.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah, and momentum always needs recovery. Yes. A strong launch season still needs space afterwards. So Delores, no more between the launches, please.

Delores Naskrent: I will not, I swear. I swear to you right now. All of you listeners can hold me accountable. 'Cause quiet growth counts too. I need time to do that behind the scenes.

I really do. And if you are building skills and testing ideas and finding support, you're improving your systems or you're getting clearer, [00:47:00] believe me, that is still growth.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah, and I think that's the biggest message from this episode. Creative business growth is not usually one dramatic breakthrough. It is a lot of small things stacking.

A better email, a clearer offer, a useful workshop, a summit that brings in new people, a customer journey that makes more sense, and a support system that catches more of the details, a client project that sharpens your skills, or a friend who gives you an hour of childcare.

Delores Naskrent: Yeah.

Kaylie Edwards: A first product, first card, first service, or first step that teaches you what to do next.

Delores Naskrent: Absolutely. And when those things start to connect, that's when growth becomes more visible. So if you feel like your business is not growing fast enough, it may be worth looking for the quieter signs too. Are you clearer than you were a few months ago? Are you learning what your audience needs?

Are you improving one of the little systems that will help you? It, maybe it'll free up some of your time. Are you becoming more [00:48:00] confident? Are you finding support? All of those things matter.

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. If this conversation made you think about your own creative business, we'd love to hear from you. What kind of growth season are you in right now?

Are you in a visible growth season, where the sales, audience, or opportunities are starting to show?

Delores Naskrent: Yeah. If you're in the foundation building season where things look quieter from the outside, but you're learning or you're planning or you're testing or you're getting everything clear, please let us know.

We'd love to hear about it

Kaylie Edwards: Yeah. None of those seasons are wrong. The important thing is knowing where seasons you are actually in, and so you can stop judging your growth by the wrong measuring stick.

Thank you so much for listening to the episode, and keep creating, keep juggling, and keep finding joy in the process.

Ep.101 - What Creative Business Growth Really Looks Like Behind the Scenes

Creating More Structure Around the Creative Work

Learning Through Experimentation

Better Systems Can Create a Calmer Business

Email Became Part of the Community

What Happened Before the Launch

Connected Offers Should Make Learning Easier

Growth Creates More People to Support

Success Can Still Be Messy

Quiet Growth Deserves Recognition

Making Room for Recovery

Recognising Your Current Season

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